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onerockindoc

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Post Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:32 pm

Do you think.....................

A friend asked me this and I will ask all of you...

Do you think if it wasn't for the help of Zippy that Tony would have had the early success he had in his career or would he have had them regardless of Zippy?

I want to know what all of you think.. I have my own opinion and will post after i hear some of your thoughts.................
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

its not a yes or no answer.

Could he have done it with another CC. Sure it is possible. Could he have fell on his face with another CC? That is possible too. it is a matter of the CC understanding the driver. When Tony came into Nascar, the years of the drivers talent carrying a team were long gone. So if I had to give a yes or no Answer I would go with no. The likelyhood of some other CC dealing with a hothead young Tony & getting the success out of Tony that Zippy did would be unlikely. However it is possible. Nascar is about the team more than the driver anymore.

Lets face it. Tony wasnt to easy to deal with when he 1st came to cup.
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Smokeshow14

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Post Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

Thats a good question. Tony has shown now that he can successful with another cc, so if he had say another top cc he would have done fine since he is just that good. But what Zippy did for Tony is something only few ccs can achieve. Tony had a temper, was brash, and never held back on comments (I know I miss the old Tony too!). Zippy treated Tony like his little brother and even went as far as saying to him that he rather see Tony happy then win the title in 2002. Zippy showed patience with him and was able to get the best out of Tony. Your first cc in cup is important. They give you confidence, and they believe in you when times are tough on and off the track. Zippy has been the second most influential person in Tony's NASCAR career second only to Joe Gibbs. That's why he is so happy to have him at SHR. It's like how Tom Brady is with Bill Belacheck. To awnser your question no. 2002 would had been impossible without Zippy.
Last edited by Smokeshow14 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cup: 14, 1, 29, 88, 99, 11, 17, 39, 15, 5, 2, 16
NW: 7, 31, 3, 11, 60, 88, 12
Trucks: 9, 88, 3, 7, 17, 31
IRL: 10, 11, 12, 26, 3, 38, 27
RIP Dan Wheldon
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Annalee

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Post Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

Tony won many,many, championships before he ever met Zippy. Having said that I think Zippy was the big reason Tony was so successful in Cup. Together they won the two cup Championships! That friendship is stronger than ever and when they are together there isn't anything they can't accomplish. They are so much alike, they should have been brothers. They are like an old pair of shoes, well worn, broken in,comfortable and not a complete set unless they are together.
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tonycrazy

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Post Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

I was very happy and confident when i heard Steve Addington was coming on board....i was disappointed when we heard Darian was leaving but the news of Steve coming in restored my faith....So do i think Tony would have the same success? i think very possible...Does Zippy add to it..?? Certainly....i give credit to Zippy for what he has brought to the table at SHR...ideas and lets face it ..it didnt hurt Tonys confidence either......but Steve is the one on that pit box each week talking in Tony's ear...its that relationship that has to gel more so than his relationship w/ Zippy....Both were a definate plus to the company....w/o seeing much of it right now i think Zippy is improving the 39 team as well...i see a diff attitude in that camp.....I see a very bright future for SHR....


tc
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im4tony

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Do you think.....................

I think Zippy has made a big difference in Ryan's team. I think Tony would have won a cup title without Zippy. He is determined and focused when he wants to be or when something like the "Dead Weight" doesn't get to him. Having said that Zippy has been a huge influence on Tony and was a factor in winning 2 titles. Maybe I should have waited to have my 2nd cup of java before I wrote this.
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ndunn

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Do you think.....................

We will never know what difference Tony would have had without Zippy or what would have happened if he had gone to Hendricks when asked. He made the right choices and Zippy did also when he told Tony to grow up. Gibbs was close to tossing him out but he knew what a talent Tony has and Joe told Zippy to go after him. Tony explains all of this in one of his books and was embarressed to admit he was acting so imature. Tony has pushed himself to the wall trying to get so so race teams in the chase and then in three seasons he takes a championship. How did he do it? Well he has the guts, talent, and the right people to help him get there. Oh and yes he has a partner that believes in him and basically gave him a blank check to do it. I think Tony could have worked real well with any cc except Chad. Can't imagine what the radio would have sounded like. For a guess I'd say it would have been a hoot.
Last edited by ndunn on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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smoke14rulez

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:00 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

Crew Chief ALWAYS matter...ask the Newman fans here. ;) If he would have gotten a complete dolt, he would have had worse results. If he would have gotten a better Crew Chief he would have gotten better results. While Zippy was good, he was never "that guy"...the Evernham/Knaus that Jeff and JJ had/have. I watched that #20 car run mid-pack all race with multiple adjustments and never got better too many times to believe he was "that guy".

Just like Newman fans wonder what Ryan's career would have been with a better CC, I wonder what Tony's would have been with "that guy"...especially from day one...I'd guess twice as many Championships and wins...maybe more... ;)
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Annalee

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:39 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

ndunn wrote: I think Tony could have worked reall well with any cc except Chad. Can't imagine what the radio would have sounded like. For a guess I'd say it would have been a hoot.

LOL My sides hurt!! Good One NDunn!
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michaeljohn

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:31 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

good question, im a pretty smart guy, opps i mean your friend is a pretty smart guy :mrgreen:

personally i think there are many factors in this question, most drivers in nascar are champions from other forums of motorsports, so that being said, that doesnt come in to play when talking about nascar.
Of course the driver's ability plays a big role, but so does the CC and the equipment he drives, i know many love to say if it wasnt for chad, JJ wouldnt be where he is at, part of the statement is true, but it is also TRUE for every driver that wins a championship, if you dont have a good re pore with the CC, you just going around in circles and wont advance to that top level, prime example Ryan/Tony G this combination wont win a championship because there are always some miscues ryan has to overcome,
early on i feel zippy was important for tony and the championships he won, zippy knew how to deal with the edgy personality of tony, and how to harness that into positives on the track, now tony is older and learned a lot, like all drivers do, and maybe it isnt that important the CC role for him.
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wolfgang

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:04 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

The equiptment and leadership makes all the differance for a driver to perform his best,that goes for any of them including Tony. Course there's always the issue of $$$$$$,who has more and knows what to do with it. ;)
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onerockindoc

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Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:35 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

My "friend" has a big head................of all of you all who have responded I am sorry to say that rulez comes closest to thinking the way I do.

I certainly think Zippy has played a large role in Tony's career and what they accomplished is amazing. I think when they won those championships their relationship was the best it could be.
But I also think that towards the end of Tony's run at JGR that there could have been a change in the offing. The relationship between driver and CC does not seem to me to be a lifetime/career pairing--it works as long as it works. Who knows maybe Jimmie and Chad will be the exception to this.

I also think that being a CC to a 30 yr old driver is diff to a 40 yr old driver. And what Tony did last year was an achievemnt just short of a miracle. Awesome to watch.
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:22 am

Re: Do you think.....................

actually, it is all up to chad whether he stays or goes, he was offered a promotion last yr, but he knew it would add stress to your life doc, so he stuck around, and trust me, they fight on the radio, just like any cc/driver combo, i think he will stick around for a couple years to see if they can reach the holy number "7"
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MyLadyWhiteWolf

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Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:00 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

onerockindoc wrote:I also think that being a CC to a 30 yr old driver is diff to a 40 yr old driver. And what Tony did last year was an achievemnt just short of a miracle. Awesome to watch.


I agree (for what it's worth). :!:
“I hate to say I'm growing up because it scares me to think I might be but maybe I'm starting to realize there are more things to life than driving a race car.” ~Tony Stewart
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Smokeshow14

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Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:56 pm

Re: Do you think.....................

I have to disagree on the what if Tony had "that guy" thing. You see Zippy was "that guy". Otherwise Tony wouldn't have hired him to be his competition director. Tony and Zippy's relationship as driver and crew chief was as good as any out there. Every year they were able to win, and every year they dominated multiple races. Zippy in his heyday was almost as good as Knaus and he only got to race against Ray Evernham as a crew chief for a full season as he left after 1999 to start his team up. Tony did finish 4th in 1999 in points and Jeff Gordon with Ray finished 9th coming off their third championship, so take that for what it's worth.
Cup: 14, 1, 29, 88, 99, 11, 17, 39, 15, 5, 2, 16
NW: 7, 31, 3, 11, 60, 88, 12
Trucks: 9, 88, 3, 7, 17, 31
IRL: 10, 11, 12, 26, 3, 38, 27
RIP Dan Wheldon
"Fight for Four"- Annalee
You got to have a big gigantic drum kit.
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