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Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

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HiddenHollow

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Post Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:16 pm

Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

I just noticed something that I hadn't noticed before. Maybe you guys knew this, but somewhere I missed it. Maybe I've been living under a rock all this time. :oops:

I'll use JJ as an example from the Las Vegas race this past weekend, but I could also have used Kyle or others. JJ qualified 6th, but due to his practice crash, he had to start the race at the rear of the field (40th, I think). When I looked at the race results today on NASCAR.COM, they show JJ starting 6th, where he qualified, NOT 40th where he actually started when the green flag dropped.

What's up with that?!? :shock: Why not show him starting 40th? Or, show him qualifying 6th with an asterisk and a footnote that he actually lined up 40th at the start of the race?

My issue is that looking back at these results years later, I'm not going to remember that he actually started 40th and worked his way up through the field to finish 2nd!?!

To me, keeping the record books this way is very misleading.

Any explanation? Thoughts? Does anyone else think this is the wrong way to keep the records?
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BlackFlag

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

Sounds wrong to me. What you say makes more sense.
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Lizard

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

And that is why they do it that way, why make sense when you can confuse people.
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jamo14

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

He actually started 43rd, according to the radio while listening to the race.
When they do the starting lineups in the broadcast, they list them as where they qualified also.
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HiddenHollow

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

Forty-whatever. :? JJ sure wasn't in row 3 when the green flag waved. I just don't understand why NASCAR keeps their statistics the way they do. :x

I don't know why I never noticed this before. To me it's just very misleading. It makes the "Starting Position" column in the stats almost useless. No wonder my weekly picks have been so bad. ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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NascarNanaOK

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

Far as I know, Nascar has always done it this way. And like you, I've always disliked it. They mark rain shortened races when they talk race wins. They should make starts from the back too.
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Annalee

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:13 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

Thank goodness they don't pay for so called starting positions, just ending. They could put an end to this by putting an asterisk by the name or change it to qualifying position list and then have a separate starting list. NASCAR just needs to ask us,we are more than willing to help! :lol: :lol:
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jamo14

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

not sure why it matters where someone historically started a race, it doesn't equate to how they will/did finish. I see it as a qualifying stat, not a race-started stat...not that it is that important to me

not sure if they say "rain shortened" in historical stats, but "laps completed" is always a stat for every participant.
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Lizard

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

jamo14 wrote:not sure why it matters where someone historically started a race, it doesn't equate to how they will/did finish. I see it as a qualifying stat, not a race-started stat...not that it is that important to me

not sure if they say "rain shortened" in historical stats, but "laps completed" is always a stat for every participant.

I just checked on NASCAR.com it shows laps completed and then down below you will see "margin of vicotry: caution" for rain shortened races. (Since I knew Matt won his first Daytona 500 on rain call I knew which race to check.)
"If it works for you, do it. If its how you feel, act it. Just be yourself, and if being yourself means you`re being cocky once in a while, have at it." Tony Stewart

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Schmoopy1000

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

it has always been that way. They qualified (in this case) 6th. The roll off the starting grid in that position, then except their penalty before the green flag. So when by the letter of the law (so to speak) he does start in 6th. Then takes the penalty. If they were to have him as starting 40th, then he would be the 40th team is pick a pit stall & so forth. He holds his qualifying position for the start of the race (although before the green) Which is also why the outside lane moves up, instead of everyone moving up one spot. This is done in all of the racing I have been around. If he technically started 40th, then the guy that was 7th would start in 6th. But that isnt how it is done. He starts 6th & then moves to the back of the pack, with the 8th place guy moving up. (7th stays in his line)

From Dirt tracks to paved tracks I have been apart of is done this way. (that use double file starts)

Bottom line he technically starts in 6th. Just like if a drivers tire goes flat on the parade lap. When he pits he will not gain his starting position back. maybe to make it simpler, Nascar should call the penalty drive through penalty, instead of starting in the back. Just a more direct statement saying they are starting in the back, but it is a penalty that they are serving.
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HiddenHollow

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Post Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Race Results - Historical Statistics Confusing

jamo14 wrote:not sure why it matters where someone historically started a race, it doesn't equate to how they will/did finish. I see it as a qualifying stat, not a race-started stat...not that it is that important to me

not sure if they say "rain shortened" in historical stats, but "laps completed" is always a stat for every participant.

Some tracks are easier than others to come from the back of the pack. Next week, would you say Bristol is easy to come from the back? I wouldn't.

I think it DOES matter where someone starts a race and it DOES (can) equate to how they will finish.

The documented race results should reflect that. OR, stop including the starting position in the stats. OR, include a footnote that tells where the driver actually did start.
"I'll wreck my mom to win a championship. I'll wreck your mom to win a championship." - Tony Stewart, November 17, 2011

"Fight For Four" - Annalee, March 27, 2012

*****Countdown to the 2015 Daytona 500*****
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