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Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

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HTower

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

eve wrote:Rochelle - As far as the "gate" I didn't say it first, the talking heads did. As far as Cheating Chad - anyone who has watched Nascar for any time knows that things are not exactly above board at HMS and the #48 team. They've been caught and it's swept under the garage floor concrete because mister 5 time feels the rules don't apply to him - restart rules for example.


I can't believe I'm about to defend Chad...

They get caught, they appeal, they get punished anyways, just like all other teams.

What do restarts have to do with Chad cheating? That's all on Jimmy. And I do remember him being punished for restarting early, he got a black flag at Dover that cost him the win and many besides that.

Chad pushes the envelope, into the grey area and sometimes beyond. Innovate or become irrelevant, that's the name of the game. Remember crab walking? Someone had an idea to make the car better, so they made a change. Soon everyone was doing it, until NASCAR outlawed it. All that meant is that teams had to find a new way to get an advantage. Chad is just faster to innovate.
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Jellikit

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:57 am

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Personally, I feel they should send a message here.

Teams are compromising the driver's safety. It's doubtful that the drivers even knew about this modification.

It may be only a couple grams of weight, but it is significant if they're taking this weight from the top of the car and moving it to the bottom so that they stay in the weight limits, and thereby improving their center of gravity.

When this first came to light, I wasn't sure it was a big deal. Now I think that in a much broader perspective, it's huge. I genuinely hope they throw the book at those responsible.
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

not even sure why Chad has been brought up in the roof flap thread. In this case he hasn't done anything wrong. In fact I think it has been awhile since he has been busted for anything. (C-post is the last thing I can remember anyways)
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:00 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

oh i so love to chime in on a topic when people do not know what they speak of......


lets take the restarts, the only person that hurt was JJ, he was taken out of the equation of a victory, he hass a mental block when it comes to the restarts and he needs to shake that if he wants to be MISTER 6 time....

its funny to hear someone say the "rules" dont apply to JJ or Chad, its very comical, im only repeating what tower said, Chad is a innovator, there is that grey area and he knows how to work it, but it also came at a price to, he has had his shares of fines, probations and even suspension, everyone thinks Chad or HMS gets away with murder because of the 2012 ruling was overturn, so that constitutes people to say "they get away with everything." if they get away with everything, JJ would have won Dover, so suck on that nugget for awhile.... its funny in the year of teams getting busted the 48 team has been clean, but ya we know, nascar just let them go..

i love a good debate, but when things are posted just because, it gets old, people like SCH and Tower they come at me with questions and i dig that, as i like to bring up once in awhile, larry mac said back in 2010 "dont hate JJ, Chad and the 48 for winning, be mad that the team and driver you follow dont work hard on beating them." but as the poster of this thread got it right, the 48 can get away with everything........ again, if they got away with everything dont ya think he would be at 8 instead of 5?????????????
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onerockindoc

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:23 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

No penalties assessed to any of the teams that were innovative. I'm not sure how I feel about this myself. At first I was salivating at the thought of severe penalties and having the book thrown at the teams responsible for what we the fans viewed as infractions to the rule.

As for Chad. Admit it. He's the man we all love to hate. I entered a 12 step program and I no longer have that problem. If you want the name of my sponsor you may PM me.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:34 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

onerockindoc wrote:No penalties assessed to any of the teams that were innovative. I'm not sure how I feel about this myself. At first I was salivating at the thought of severe penalties and having the book thrown at the teams responsible for what we the fans viewed as infractions to the rule.

As for Chad. Admit it. He's the man we all love to hate. I entered a 12 step program and I no longer have that problem. If you want the name of my sponsor you may PM me.

As far as Chad. I would take him for Ryans CC in a heartbeat.

As far as nascar decision. It doesn't surprise because of the # of teams that would appeal the decision.(nascar backed down) But the decision is total Bull $h!t. If it was one team that did it I assure you fines & 6 pts would have been taken. & as far as CCs on probation more should have been done.
We all knew there was no real advantage. That was never the point. The rules is unapproved parts being used.
Nascar has proven yet again why their brain trusts are such a joke & the only thing consistent about Nascar is their inconsistencies. (at least they are predictable)
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housesandhogans

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:37 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Schmoopy1000 wrote:
onerockindoc wrote:No penalties assessed to any of the teams that were innovative. I'm not sure how I feel about this myself. At first I was salivating at the thought of severe penalties and having the book thrown at the teams responsible for what we the fans viewed as infractions to the rule.

As for Chad. Admit it. He's the man we all love to hate. I entered a 12 step program and I no longer have that problem. If you want the name of my sponsor you may PM me.

As far as Chad. I would take him for Ryans CC in a heartbeat.

As far as nascar decision. It doesn't surprise because of the # of teams that would appeal the decision.(nascar backed down) But the decision is total Bull $h!t. If it was one team that did it I assure you fines & 6 pts would have been taken. & as far as CCs on probation more should have been done.
We all knew there was no real advantage. That was never the point. The rules is unapproved parts being used.
Nascar has proven yet again why their brain trusts are such a joke & the only thing consistent about Nascar is their inconsistencies. (at least they are predictable)


I agree on both counts Schmoopy. I don't know how Chad got brought up in this thread to begin with, because I don't think anyone accused him of cheating with this group. But, I would take him as Ryan's or Tony's crew chief any day. I think JJ is a great driver, but honestly think he would not have done as well without Chad. Chad on the other hand, I do believe would have done just as well with a number of drivers.

And the whole "no penalty" thing is just a joke. I'm not even sure why Nascar has rules. The more this kind of thing goes on with Nascar as a whole, the more they will not gain any new fans, which is what I believe their end goal is. People who don't really know racing will just start to see the whole competition as "fixed".
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Rochelle

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Regardless of why NASCAR made the ruling, safety was not compromised. There's nothing saying the spacers they put in there were any less effective than the original parts, regardless of what they looked like. I truly don't believe any of those teams would possibly sacrifice their driver for a few grams of weight. Besides, they didn't race with the unapproved parts. Yeah, I know that hasn't made any difference before, but it should, in my opinion.

I can't wait for Race Hub today, I want to see Larry scratch off that last hair on his head...
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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housesandhogans

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:37 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I agree Rochelle about nobody's safety being affected. I mean, if nothing else, the parts were confiscated by Nascar before the race, so no one's safety was compromised. And, I agree that a team wouldn't intentionally sacrifice a driver's safety. But, the important word there is "intentionally". I do believe that ALL teams push the limits as much as they can to gain an edge and there is always a possibility that the driver's safety could be affected "unintentionally".

But, my main question is................why have rules if you are not going to enforce them?
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HTower

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

housesandhogans wrote:I agree Rochelle about nobody's safety being affected. I mean, if nothing else, the parts were confiscated by Nascar before the race, so no one's safety was compromised.


I really don't like this argument. Their intent was to use the part, so they should be punished for that. I can only imagine how thorough a NASCAR inspection is, but I'm sure some things still slip through. The rule needs to be, "you put it on the car, and it is incorrect, you get punished." Otherwise the crews will start loading the cars up with illegal parts, and if NASCAR finds them, then they switch to the correct one, without a penalty.
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:35 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

HTower wrote:
housesandhogans wrote:I agree Rochelle about nobody's safety being affected. I mean, if nothing else, the parts were confiscated by Nascar before the race, so no one's safety was compromised.


I really don't like this argument. Their intent was to use the part, so they should be punished for that. I can only imagine how thorough a NASCAR inspection is, but I'm sure some things still slip through. The rule needs to be, "you put it on the car, and it is incorrect, you get punished." Otherwise the crews will start loading the cars up with illegal parts, and if NASCAR finds them, then they switch to the correct one, without a penalty.

the 2 & 22 got caught before they raced with their parts & it cost them 25 points & CC suspended.

But after today I guess Nascar can throw their zero tolerance rule out the window.
If teams want to change a rule just get a bunch of them to all do the same thing at once. Nascar wont want to hassle with enforcing their own rules. This wouldn't fly under Bill France or Bill France Jr's watch. if you go to inspection with an illegal part on your car Nascar should have kept up on their Lip service rules. Remember when they were talking all that trash about they don't care why.... if it isn't an approved part it is illegal & punishment would follow. Nascar simply looks like a joke now. (or still) (or even more) In the past when a team makes the argument there isn't any advantage, Nascar has said it didn't matter (zero tolerance) Now Nascar makes a statement it is ok because there were no advantages. LOL

I am simply laughing at Nascar right now. Seems like the more they talk the more they prove how stupid they are. :mrgreen:

This is probably why Nascar draws their lines in the sand......... its not permanent, so they can move that line when they want too.
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:43 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

as much as i love this sport, i dont like the sanctioning body.... nascar is a walking contradiction, just as i wrote in the ryan thread, they didnt bother to throw the yellow flag on the last lap, had they done that the last wreck could have been avoided.
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eve

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I'm disappointed that Nascar did not enforce their own rules again in this situation. The number of teams involved and the fact that the cars were repaired before any driver hit the track for practice so no one was in danger was the right thing to do. What does concern me is how long this had been going on. Nascar admitted over the weekend that this could have been going on for awhile since they don't inspect that particular part on a weekly basis. I hope that this is added to the list of things that are checked in the future. I agree that if this had happened under Mr. France Jr. or Sr. penalties would have been assessed and an example made of the teams that dared to try it in the first place. Safety is so important in this sport, to do anything that would compromise it is frightening.

As for my comments about Chad. If I have offended anyone, that was not my intention. What I wrote was mostly my own opinion and observations over years of watching Nascar. Similar things were being said in the 90's when Jeff Gordon came into the Cup series. Though nothing was ever proved, the cloud of "are they really doing this and getting away with it", was always there. The only owner with guts enough to voice his opinions was Jack Roush and he paid I high price for it. Not in fines, but in little digs through the season that cost his drivers points and a chance at a championship a couple of times. The similarities are there whether or not anything is really going on or not.
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:51 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Rochelle wrote:Regardless of why NASCAR made the ruling, safety was not compromised. There's nothing saying the spacers they put in there were any less effective than the original parts, regardless of what they looked like. I truly don't believe any of those teams would possibly sacrifice their driver for a few grams of weight. Besides, they didn't race with the unapproved parts. Yeah, I know that hasn't made any difference before, but it should, in my opinion.

I can't wait for Race Hub today, I want to see Larry scratch off that last hair on his head...



cant wait to see larry mac??????? sinner........
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jamo14

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

you can't spell nascar without the letters n-c-a-a...both organizations are unpredictable about their own rules.
Do something with your life and go get me a beer.

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