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Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

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eve

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Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:17 pm

Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

When I heard about the teams who had modified the roof flaps I was appalled. This is a safety part and should never be touched. I understand that the roof flaps are delivered in a box, ready with all parts to be installed on the cars.

Nascar needs to do something different about this sort of thing. They had the perfect opportunity in 2006 when Chad Knauss "modified" the track bar and wedge bolts to make the back glass go up and down. And who could forget Michael Waltrip and the jet fuel in the carborator. I said then and now, both teams should have been sent home. Not just the Crew Chiefs, the entire team. They should have been given 2-3 hours to pack their stuff and back to North Carolina with them. Sponors would not have been happy, but oh well, maybe they would learn. Jeff Gordon was accused, but it was never proved, that Ray Everham played with fuel and some substance inside of the tires.

After this latest stunt, maybe Nascar needs to do surprise spot inspections at the shops during the week. This stuff is happening before the teams get to the track. Or maybe if the infractions are serious enough, the entire team should be sent home. I bet the teams would think twice about doing there little modifications if that were to happen just once.

Safety measurers are there for a reason. We don't need to lose another driver because a safety harness fails-Dale Earnhard- or have a driver get hurt because a safer wall wasn't on the inside wall-Denny Hamlin. To alter the roof flaps that keep the cars on the ground just to make the car lighter is so wrong I don't have the words to express myself properly.

I know there have been modifications to cars - Penske- or a vendor had a part that was too light - JGR, but this is going too far.
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housesandhogans

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Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I understand your sentiment Eve. On Race Hub today I think it was Larry Mac who said that the penalties probably wouldn't come out til the end of the week instead of on Tuesday. He said the Nascar officials he talked to said that since so many teams were involved that they had to take an internal look at what Nascar does and why so many teams would want to change it. That's the thing that has me flumaxed. That's a lot of teams doing that sort of thing! And the weight gain advantage sounded like it was very little. It will be interesting. And, you are right, anything safety oriented should not be messed with.
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:04 am

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I don't think they would gain much advantage, but with all the crap we had to swallow from Nascar on how they don't take intent into consideration & some other silly crap they said, when it comes to their safety rules. I will be upset if they give the teams a pass instead of docking points. (I figure it would be in the 6 pt range) but with it being a safety thing & the fact nascar wont bend at all on that, you would think it would be the 25 pt variety. But I am getting a feeling it will be a fine only & Nascar will prove the only consistent thing in nascar is their inconsistencies.
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housesandhogans

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:15 am

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

The other thing talked about on Race Hub was the fact that the #2 and #22 crew chiefs are on probation. Larry M said that he expected most of the fines would be monetary, possibly points although that didn't sound as certain. But, he also said that if these 2 cc's were not punished by missing a race or two since they are already on probation, then he felt Nascar could just scrap the idea of probation that not penalizing them since they are already on probation would mean that probation didn't really mean anything to Nascar.
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ndunn

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Perhaps NASCAR could do the spaghetti toss against the wall. If it sticks fine the owner. He can afford it, take points away from owner and the driver so then the driver can get into the crew chiefs face about ruining his career. Only fine the driver if he does something wrong. I'm quite interested in the restarts. What is the fuss all about? If anyone watched racing from the 50's or 60's they would have seen some fancy footwork. Somewhere on the site someone posted they think the rule book is way to large and even then no one seems to know how to interpret the rules. I agree. Racing is complicated enough without adding to it. Yes I realize some of this is sarcastic but then isn't a $100,000 fine along the same lines?
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HTower

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Has it been determined that the teams altered the roof flaps, or is it still under investigation of a possible manufacturing issue?
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housesandhogans

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:41 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

At this point I have not heard anything about it being a manufacturing issue. Everything spoken about so far seems to indicate that it would not be. But who really knows until Nascar makes it's decision?
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eve

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:55 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

It was determined at Daytona on pre-practice inspection that the teams did the modifications. It was not a manufacture error. The roof flaps, according to Larry Mac, are delivered to the teams in a box complete with all parts that are to be used as well as instructions on how to place them on the car. This was done by the teams. The crew chiefs are in charge of this, so the crew chiefs are to blame for this. In the responses to my original post Nascar is taking the week to investigate and determine how to handle this because so many teams are involved. At least SHR - which I'm not surprised at all - did not participate in this modification. HMS was also not involved, but maybe cheating Chad found a way to hide it - you really don't know.

I hope that Nascar takes a firm stand on this. This is way more important than rear end parts or an engine part being too light. This is safety and safety comes first. These crew chiefs need to understand when Nascar says DO NOT TOUCH THIS they mean it. It might take removing those crew chiefs on probation from the teams for the rest of the year. I mean REMOVE. No instant messaging, no tweets, no facebook, no emails - NOTHING. They should not be allowed in the shop or to have any contact with their team at all. That might sound harsh, but I bet Ryan Newman would agree with me.
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Annalee

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Eve on RACEDAY before the Daytona 400 they showed all the roof flap parts that NASCAR had confiscated. They were all different, some had holes in them, others were flat and much thiner...but none of them looked anything like the part issued by NASCAR...those who were in trouble with bad parts said they posed no advantage. If that was the case why did they change them if there was no advantage.......today is Tuesday, the day the hand out the fines, penalties and suspensions......we will see what happens. They really need to put a stop to this. Fines means nothing.......they all have money! This should be interesting.
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housesandhogans

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Eve -- to your point about the crew chiefs and probation. I agree with you. If a person is being punished and is not supposed to be running the team for that weekend - then they should not be allowed to have any contact with the team. Hard for Nascar to police that, I know. But, personally, I think saying that a cc has been suspended for a race or two is a joke right now. Since the #2 seems to have several infractions this year, seems to me that team really considers it a joke.

Annalee - I think they said that any penalties will come out later because Nascar really wanted to take a look at why so many teams would do this. So, we may not see anything til Wednesday or Thursday.
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jamo14

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I'm bothered by people using the word "gate" every time there is a scandal............ :?
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Rochelle

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Personally, I'm sick of the cheating Chad crap. Get over it, he paid his fines, suspensions, etc.

We'll see what happens in the next few days. I don't really care about the penalties, my curiosity is why so many teams were modifying the spacers. A few grams of weight is not an advantage, that's about the difference between 1 hotdog or 2 the driver may have had for lunch.

I fail to see this as some big scandal. And sorry, but a gate is how some people access their backyard.
And sorry, but NASCAR cannot tell these teams what personnel can come and go from their own shops.
Sounds more like a witch hunt on here than anything else. Geez, nobody got hurt, safety wasn't compromised. Wow, get a grip
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dirt93

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

I think it's about the principal. If Nascar says don't modify/alter/touch a part then the teams better not do it. Nascar will penalize the teams accordingly. Its no secret they don't like the grey area. Its about following directions. I think back in the day the rules were more a matter of interpretation. Not so much now. It will be interesting to see what happens because so many teams altered the parts.
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eve

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Post Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Rochelle - As far as the "gate" I didn't say it first, the talking heads did. As far as Cheating Chad - anyone who has watched Nascar for any time knows that things are not exactly above board at HMS and the #48 team. They've been caught and it's swept under the garage floor concrete because mister 5 time feels the rules don't apply to him - restart rules for example.

The roof flap issue is serious. Any driver that has been upside down at Daytonna, "Dega, or any other track will tell you it's not something that they want to repeat. Ryan Newman, not a fan of plate racing, has seen his share of upside down, cars on his car, etc. I'm sure that he won't want a tampered roof flap on his car. Nascar has every right to ban a Crew Chief from having contact with his race team if he's suspended, they write the rules and they enforce them as they see fit.

A CC suspended for 2 or 3 races for wrong rear end parts or a part on an out sourced engine that's too light is different from a CC that modifies a part that is solely there to keep the driver safe. This is an area that should never be compromised. Because of the nature of the infraction a more serious punishment is warranted. When Nationwide CCs for JGR were found to have tampered with cars after a race, they were suspended by Nascar as well the team. They had no contact until Joe Gibbs decided their suspension had been fulfilled regardless of what Nascar had mandated.

Safety has to be a priority in racing, it's dangerous and the drivers know that. But when they get into those cars they are depending that the safety features built into that car will work. The last time a safety item failed, a driver died - Dale Earnhardt. If Nascar had not found the modifications in the roof flaps, drivers could have been seriously hurt or worse. Expecting CCs to follow the rules isn't too much to ask and when they violate that trust, an example has to be made in order for the rest of the garage to take notice and understand that it will not be tolerated.
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Schmoopy1000

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:05 am

Re: Is anyone bothered by roof flap gate this weekend?

Well rules are rules, whether anyone agrees with them or not. What Nascar needs to do is be consistent about what happens when rules are broken.
I am getting a feeling that Nascar will come up with aan excuse to be relaxed on the penalties since there are so many. I honestly think they need to deal with each one as an individual penalty. (then times by 16)
If they can take 6 pts away for a parts failure (like a shock) then they should definitely take points from 16 teams for what the teams did on purpose.
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