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NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

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tlmerk

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:18 am

NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Not sure if this is opening a can of worms or if anyone cares? I think it's kind of lame to let the actions of some sicko in South Carolina who killed a bunch of people in a church dictate that suddenly the confederate flag is a symbol of racism just because he was photographed with it.

I know for a long time people have been against the flag and what they claim it suggests, but I personally have never looked at it that way, but rather as a part of the history of this country. Not sure NASCAR will ever tell fans they can't wave the flag on their RVs but it looks like they're backing the thought behind censoring it. ???

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/06/2 ... tatehouse/

What do you guys think of this?
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jdpirate

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:04 am

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

I feel the same as you, tl.... I regarded it as a piece of history much like the "Don't Tread On ME" flag, and not a sign of racism.
As you say, it will be interesting :|
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:38 am

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

well it has been a symbol of racism long before that kid did what he did. this was a country that was born to let every man be equal, that was not the case in the south, i for one and glad that they took the flag down, especially in government buildings, the government represents all of us, if people wanna hang the flag at their home, they have the right to do that.......
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ndunn

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

I had always assumed the flag was what the part of the south was who wanted to be let out of the United States. Lincoln said "no way" and so the civil war. Since we are a country with diversion it will always be something that people are uptight about. And since they have that right others want their rights too. It's something this country will never be able to solve as we can't let everyone have their way.
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:34 am

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Kudos to Dale Sr................. here is a small piece of an article that is from yahoo....

the family’s opposition of the Confederate flag, referencing a podcast by Kelley Earnhardt Miller, Dale’s daughter, who relayed a story in which her dad removed the Confederate flag from a popular bumper sticker that said “American by birth, Southern by the grace of God” when he learned the flag made his African-American housekeeper uncomfortable. He left the phrase, but sliced off the controversial symbol of the South.

"He didn't want to offend anybody or make anybody mad in that manner," Earnhardt Miller said. "He had a good heart."

Jrs thoughts from his book of 2001.....

Dale Jr., in his 2001 autobiography, wrote about a speaking engagement where a fan asked him his thoughts on the rebel flag. After what he characterized as a “chorus of redneck yelps and cheers,” he described what led him to an interesting answer.

The guy has put me in a bind. As much as I brag about being a no-[B.S.]-tell-it-like-it-is-here's-how-I-see-it kinda guy, I know that these are the fans that pay my salary, so I'm hesitant to tell him the rebel flag represents closed-minded, racist views that have no place in today's society. Give 'em a straight answer and I may #### off the "rebels" in the crowd ... But I have my opinions and I don't want to give a dishonest answer, either. I feel like the weight of the Civil War is resting on my shoulders.
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smokieonefour

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:49 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

OK... how come "I" always have to be the history nerd? LOL Doesn't anyone else watch history shows? PBS ? Read Wiki? Explore information ( gather your own facts ) ? LOL

If we are talking about a flag that is red with a blue " X " and has white stars in it ... it is NOT "The Confederate Flag." In fact ... there is NO "Confederate Flag" ... but about maybe 1/2 a dozen battle flags, from the Civil War.

The Red flag with the blue X & stars was first a NAVAL jack ( flag). That naval jack then became adopted by the Army of Northern Virginia, under General Lee. People became to associate the BATTLE FLAG ( from VA ) as "The Confederate Flag" since it was always seen with Gen. Lee.

As for the battle flag being seen as a racial slur ... the KKK doesn't use it, they use the stars & stripes. The battle flag was long used after the civil war for veterans and celebrations. "In 1948, the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government." These are the people that started to use the battle flag as a sign of segregation ... and it took off from there.

No group has a right to use any battle flag for other purposes... but they did and it still lives today.

What that battle flag really represents is ... a group of men in battle, fighting for states rights and for others to recognize them, in the heat of a battle.. Not to keep slaves ( well, yeah, ok that was part of states rights ) but the cause of the war was states rights, initially.

I think to remove the flag from existence ( which is pretty much what people are calling for ) is to try and either erase or white wash history. Many, many men died under that battle flag and defending it. Many are proud of it, as it is part of their heritage. If we remove the flag ... are we also going to remove the northern expansion & industrialization? Are we going to lower the flag on the USS Arizona because it offends some Asian Pacific Islanders? The flag represents a part of the 1st Amendment of free speech.

"Remember your history ... for it is the doom of man, that he forgets."
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alenigma

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

That idiot kid from South Carolina made all of us South Carolinians look bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you view the Confederate flag as racist, that is all you will see. If you view it with reverence and respect, however you're considered to be a racist. People of all ancestry should have learned by now that if you rewrite history, you are doomed to repeat it.
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alenigma

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Smokie, I guess we were typing at the same time...
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smokieonefour

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Upon signing out... I thought I'd add one more post, to be clear about some things.

I am neither For, Nor Against, the battle flag of The N. VA. Army being displayed on public places.

I am for "Let's discuss the issue rationally and let everyone be heard.... and THEN make a decision."

I was raised in the era of cultural jokes - What's difference between an Irish wake and an Irish wedding? One less drunk. - and then saw the sensitivity be born and bloom.

Problem is - not everyone sees or wants to be sensitive, as they are ( simply ) living a lifestyle they were born into and live.
Some, like me who was born to a racist mother, go the other way and become anti-racist in the face of a parent. Some are raised in a VERY tolerant environment and walk over to the dark side, all on their personal choice, own.

I don't want an image around, that is seen so negatively, by so many people displayed prominently in public. It's hurtful to them, every day.

However ... I also do not want an article of history to be removed by "the mob" without due process.

Anyway... here is a video that is the opening credits of a movie called Gods & Generals. Ted Turner had extensive history searches done to re-produce many battle flags of the civil war, in this opening sequence. The reason I'm posting it is, so you can see ... all that are shown, are a FRACTION of all the battle flags used in the civil war.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!

Sh*t happens... but don't worry, it usually happens to me.
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alenigma

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:25 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

My dear old, white-haired mother has been researching ancestry since 1971. I had Native American ancestors that were rounded-up like chattel and forced to go to Oklahoma. I had ancestors that worked hard to make their skills available to slave owners. Those slave owners were an elite group. My ancestors didn't own slaves. When the Emancipation Proclamation came about, they were torn as to whom they should represent. The (white) slave owners were given officer's status. The hard working people (Southerners) were forced into Military service or killed. Meanwhile, the rich plantation owners pranced upon their horses...way behind enemy lines. Urging their troops to fight harder. The death of my ancestors is why I still revere that flag. None of my ancestors owned slaves. One of my ancestors was a slave. Many of my ancestors perished in this war. Many of them came back affected. Don't try to rewrite history. EVER
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michaeljohn

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:33 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

tell that to the black people that were killed just because they wanted the same rights as white folks, not to mention how the south clearly wanted to keep everything segregated, do i need to mention church burnings? this can go on for days, the blacks have every right to protest and have that flag removed, for them it is not a sign of pride, it is a sign of disgusting white people who have murdered, beat up, rape and destroyed property of people who were different from them.
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bowtie_4

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Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:35 am

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Nascar will not ban flag.
http://m.clickorlando.com/sports/nascar ... s/33732192


While NASCAR endorsed efforts on Tuesday to remove the Confederate flag from the statehouse in Charleston, S.C., it's likely that the flag will not be banned from the organization's racetracks.

NASCAR released a statement saying it supports South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley's call to remove the symbol.

Haley and other state leaders, including South Carolina football coach Steve Spurrier, have been vocal about removing the flag in the wake of last week's deadly shooting at a Charleston church.

"The South Carolina football team, players and coaches strongly support Governor Haley's decision to remove the flag from the capitol," Spurrier tweeted Tuesday afternoon.

Dylann Roof is accused of killing nine black members of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. The shooting is being investigated as a hate crime.

Since the killings, photos of Roof posing with the Confederate flag have emerged. The flag is a symbol often associated with white supremacists, but also is embraced by many who see it as a symbol of Southern heritage.

"As our industry works collectively to ensure that all fans are welcome at our races, NASCAR will continue our long-standing policy to disallow the use of the Confederate Flag symbol in any official NASCAR capacity," NASCAR said in a statement. "While NASCAR recognizes that freedom of expression is an inherent right of all citizens, we will continue to strive for an inclusive environment at our events."

It's not uncommon to see Confederate flags flown in the infield at many NASCAR races. Based on the statement, those flags will continue to fly. South Carolina officials said Tuesday that citizens will be still be able to fly the flag at their homes.

South Carolina is home to Darlington Raceway, which is about two hours north of Charleston. The Sprint Cup series will race at Darlington on Aug. 6.
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alenigma

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Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

The capital of my state is Columbia, SC. This punk had a bad haircut. The same bowl cut as that whacko that killed all those schoolchildren in Sandy Hook, NJ. I think we should ban bad haircuts. The punk drove a Hyundai, therefore we should ban Korean cars from our borders.
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alenigma

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Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

mj, those were the actions of very few. They were far and away intolerable. The Civil War was not fought simply over the issue of slavery. You need to do some research before you decide to speak your mind. Most of my black friends could care less about the Confederate flag. If the naval Union Jack was removed, the blacks would still want more. Like I said, capitalism is what made a supply and demand for slavery. Africans rounded-up their own and sold them on the coast. Because rich whites were tired of paying indentured servants.
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tlmerk

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Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: NASCAR banning the confederate flag?

Wow, I'm learning a lot on this thread.

I saw a picture of that SC shooter burning a regular American flag today so I don't think any flag should be linked to him. I am not personally against this Confederate flag, in fact I think it's history is quite interesting and I'm not from the South so don't feel it matters what I think.

I do believe in freedom of speech and I think it's ignorant to associate something with the flag that really is not applicable. Slavery is a part of our history but it doesn't define us as a nation. We grew from that and I don't understand why we associate racism with this particular flag. There is something to be said about the compassion of avoiding something that upsets your neighbor. If someone else thinks it's a symbol of racism, we can either discuss it or just avoid it in deference to their feelings. It's a tough matter and has far reaching implications. It's not just about a flag but about slavery, racism, should the sins of the fathers be revisited on distant generations, freedom of speech, tolerance, etc.
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